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Aliens are real

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Aliens are real

Comments for: Aliens are real
quasi Report This Comment
Date: March 30, 2011 10:43PM

So if I send money to the preacher on TV I'll get a ride in a spaceship? Does it have a holodeck?
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: March 31, 2011 01:10AM

...all i had to do was send ten dollars to the church of the sacred bleeding hearted jesus located somewhere in Los Angeles california...............
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: March 31, 2011 01:30PM

I'd come nearer to believin the alien segment above as plausible.

I've been goin at it hammer and tong with theists for the past 2 days on another forum and here's some of their best:

"All things are possible to God. Even atheists."

"Read the Bible and try to disprove anything in it. I mean REALLY disprove it by history or science or whatever, you can't do it because it is the truth."

"It’s interesting and informative to read the anti-religion comments. Proves the Bible is correct. You can’t think your way in, and there are goats." followed by -> "No one can think their way in (i.e. by their intellectual ability), because, “it is by grace you are saved and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”."

"I am a believer and a Christian.If I am wrong then I and the unbeliever are both OK.On the other hand if I am right and the unbeliever is wrong, then the unbeliever has a really bit problem.Since it costs me nothing to be a believer and gives me a lot of satisfaction to live the best life I can,I prefer to take that course."

"For those pointing to belief in a Creator as irrational/superstitious, I would point out as the greatest evidence, you yourself. The fact that you are conscious and can reason testifies to Divine intervention."

"it helps if you can manage to look down your nose at people who believe in things they can't reproduce in a laboratory - like EVERYTHING that must be true if atheism is true. Double bonus points if you can rationalize away the irony of that."

And lastly: "Life is full or choices. Eternal Life has two. Heaven or Hell!!"

For myself, until any religion can lay claim to 100% verifiable proof to support it by any means besides personal faith alone, I'll never be swayed to believe in any of it winking

woberto Report This Comment
Date: March 31, 2011 04:30PM

Hell is never mentioned in the bible.
GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: March 31, 2011 07:21PM

Um, yes it is 'berto - it may not use the term "hell" but it's in there.

Matthew 25:41-43 - Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 - Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 - But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

I'll let you decide for yourself whether to believe it or not, but your facts were wrong 'berto. up yours
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: March 31, 2011 08:30PM

The Bible relies solely on self-reference for justification. In faith based religion it's apparently supposed to be that way.
pro_junior Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 12:05AM

proverbs 5:19 - Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy you at all times; and be you ravished always with her love.

only sheep need a shepherd...
woberto Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 04:21AM

I repeat, Hell is never mentioned in the Bible.
GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 05:23AM

That's like saying poultry is not sold at KFC, 'berto.
pro_junior Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 07:30AM

Matthew 10:28 (New King James Version)

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
pro_junior Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 07:32AM

woberto Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 08:13AM

Pfft, new King James was written in 1982. That translation doesn't appear in the 1611 text.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 10:22AM

"And do not fear those who kill the body" <- Holy Bathwater Batman, there's some sage advice (*facepalm*)

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 12:21PM

'berto - if you're going to be that much of a pedant then you're not going back far enough. You need to go back the the original Hebrew and Greek writings, so if you do that, other words will also not be mentioned simply because they are English translations.

I guess what I'm saying is stop being such a contrary imbecile and at least try to respond intelligently.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 12:32PM

Here are several verses from the New International Version (2011) of the Bible which mention hell:

Matthew 5:22

Matthew 5:29

Matthew 5:30

Matthew 10:28

Matthew 18:9

Matthew 23:15

Matthew 23:33

Mark 9:43

Mark 9:45

Mark 9:47

Luke 12:5

James 3:6

2 Peter 2:4

There are more.

More importantly there are at least 622 Bible verses with heaven it them.

Look for evil you will find evil.
Look for good and you will find good.
Look for nothing and you will find nothing.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 01:39PM

Great wolfie, but when you seek proof of religion, where do you go for that totally

BTW, "in the bible" or "in your heart" won't cut it so please try to refrain from these or other illogical/implausible sources (*horse*)

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 01:51PM

I'm confused Mrkim - you need more proof of religion than the churches, mosques, synagogues etc that you see around? How about the bible - ever seen one of them? That's like years ago when I heard an old guy say "I don't believe in woman doctors." Just as woman doctors existed, so do religions. Many wars have been fought over them. Do not confuse religion with a deity, or even a belief in a deity. Religion is not faith.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 02:06PM

Points well taken GAK, let me be a bit more specific. I seek verifiable proof of the basis of any religion, i.e. proof of god. I'm not too picky, any ole god will do smileys
with beer

BTW, I must disagree with your last statement. From the best I've yet to uncover on the subject faith is the basis of all religious belief grinning


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 02:09PM by Mrkim.
pro_junior Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 02:46PM

whoops link I posted was meant to be this page, King James Version... omg it says hell!
quasi Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 03:47PM

I think it's quite possible there is intelligent design behind the natural world and I like the story and lessons of Jesus so I suppose I'm a Christian of a sort but to believe the Bible is the official word of God and not just a collection of writings by people is a form of blindness. Some of the stories may be true, I think there's some historical corroberation to some of the people in them, but there's just no real proof and no reason to claim any religion is any truer than any other. What matters is that we act in moral ways. I'd a lot sooner trust MrKim than many of the "chritians" I know.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 03:49PM by quasi.
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 03:57PM

it's safe to say that nobody knows the true deal, so why would you make yourself look like a fool claiming that you DO know? much less, look down on someone who doesn't follow blindly
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 04:14PM

Some people don't care if they appear foolish or even actually are fools. It's also foolish to try to reason with fools. As a point of minor interest though, some surveys indicate that majority of those who consider themselves to be Christian do not believe blindly that the bible is the infallible Word of God.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 04:23PM

I've often wondered if the higher ups in many religions themselves are actually non-believers. Afterall, with a gig like theirs what difference does it make if they're knowingly pedaling snake-oil or not, the take still remains constant and the vig's pretty juicy too rock on

BTW, thanks for the huge vote of confidence quasi! Comin from one as yourself I take that as a huge compliment ..... and The Anti-Church of Mrkim is graciously accepting any and all donations at this time, so ..... smileys
with beer

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 04:48PM

When I said that "Religion is not faith" Mrkim, I was alluding to the fact that you don't have to be religious to have faith (take quasi's example from above - a belief in some sort of intelligent creator, but definitely not religious). Likewise, although most religious people do, you don't have to have a faith to be religious (as you pointed out yourself, you doubt the faith of some of those higher up in religious organisations).
woberto Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 05:28PM

Of the several times the King James attributes the word "hell" to Jesus, 11 times it is translated from Gehenna, and 4 times it is translated from Hades.
Greek Gehenna-from the Hebrew Ge [Be] Hinnom,meaning "valley of [the son of] Hinnom". A valley located east of Jerusalem known as Hinnom Valley.
Greek Hades- from the Hebrew Sheol,meaning "the unseen, imperceptible", and denotes the place or state of the dead. Hades/Sheol are also translated as "grave"* many times in the Bible.
*How can the same word mean 'grave' and 'hell'?

Heaven and Hell are relatively modern concepts from around 1000 years.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 08:55PM

I do not use the King James Version of the Bible much because it is the most inaccurate translation. It was written to be easy to read and poetic. Woberto, the use of hell in the passages I listed refers to the place of the damned not just the dead. Don't mix Greek mythology and Christianity it doesn't work.

As far as the Bible being the word of God, it is. There are other holy writings out there that did not make it into the Bible for many different reasons. Another thing, there are differences in the Bible between the different main stream religions. Some add or remove different books and passages. Are they wrong? I don't know. I just know the main theme of the Bible is Gods love for our failing race and the forgiveness he offers us thought the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savor.

As for MrKim, be warned he is out for an augment not the truth. I have in he past tried to show him the truth, but he is not interested in it. All he wants to do is fight. I am not interested in fighting with him.

Seek good and you will find good.
Seek evil and you will find evil.
Seek nothing and you will find nothing.
quasi Report This Comment
Date: April 01, 2011 09:14PM

The Bible was written by men and compiled by a group of men who were all inspired by their faith, but God did not put pen to paper. It is tainted by men's idea of what God's word would be.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 02:02AM

quasi, if the Bible was written by men and compiled by a group of men who were all inspired by God thought their faith, how is it tainted? God did not put pen to paper. He wrote in men's harts what need to be put on paper.
quasi Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 06:54AM

People can't help but editorialise and put their own spin on things, it's human nature. It was THEIR faith which moved them, not a possesion by a spirit or the voice of God whispering in their ear (things which today are considered mental illness), and coming from men and a committee of men it can't help but be tainted by the imperfect hand of man. That would be the best that could be said about the authors' motivations; the worst, and certainly likely in some cases, is that they wrote and/or compiled the text to maintain positions of power over superstitious people with no divine instruction at all. If God exists, and I think he probably does, He gave me my intellect to look for logical proof of His works rather than believe in the constructs of men who can only say, "Well it just is." We weren't given our intelligence to then just cast it aside for blind faith, we were created with questioning minds to seek out truths which can be backed up by hard evidence. This world is a much worse place from people who have deluded themselves into believing they're God's agents or twisting "the word of God" to their own ends instead of just trying to get along with their fellow man. Yeah, yeah, I know it's not about this world and our troubles, but that's what we're stuck with until we get to see what happens after this life.
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 08:30AM

believers are funny, you give them an unanswerable question, and they spit out an answer as fast as they can think of one. smiling
bouncing smiley
pro_junior Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 10:22AM

Ellen G. White
quasi Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 11:27AM

To me, the greatest evidence that there is a higher power that created all this is the fact that I have the wits to be able to look for evidence and not blindly follow the way a dog follows it's master. Human intelligence, as flawed as it is, just seems so far and above the rest of everything else on this earth that I find it hard to believe that it happened without at least a little help from above. I also find it very unlikely that we are unique in the universe - the earth is not the center of everything as Bible scholars once believed and insisted others believe under threat of death.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 12:06PM

GAK, we can play and twist the semantics of wordings all day long while totally avoiding the reality which remains starkly that since no proof of the existence of any god can be provided, all religious belief and worship is 100% faith based.

I personally take no issue with anyones faith and see their right to worship and practice any religion in anyway they so choose to be an absolute right so long as these actions in no way harm others.

What I take HUGE issue with is believers who point to their favorite religious construct as "the truth" when in truth, no proof outside of personal faith can be put forth to prove the reasonability of such a claim. Secondly I take exceptional issue with believers claiming some moral high ground which again they grant themselves through the tenets of their again "faith based" proclamations, and again, without any basis for such a belief being founded upon fact, but instead by purely high minded fiction designed by men, not god.

In my many debates over the years on the topic several common threads fall into place in each of them: 1. Because I'm an atheist, I can not be a moral human as I can hold no basis for morality without a belief in some form of theology 2. I, as the unbeliever, am the one who will suffer for my lack of faith while believers will live on for eternity simply because they believe 3. Creative design can be the only reasonable/plausible answer in how the world around us occurs ... and 4. Since science has yet to have proven or disproven god, it is flawed at its core and should be derided as invalid in any argument regarding religion.

My query is, and yes Wolfie, it is a valid question, whether you choose to view it such or not, and no, the only "proof" you've ever offered previously are the same subjective faith based protestations all believers proudly point to as "THE TRUTH" , never mind the real facts which are it's all based on improvable constructs, which to a rational mind could never elevate such claims to a level of what could be reasonably viewed as truth, since truth is something that's verifiable, not subjective ....

If I were created by an omniscient, all loving and all powerful god who knew my every thought and action before I was even born, while also being endowed by this same creator with the capacity to question all things, including this very same gods existence, which religious texts all say I must not do (a separate and similarly fascinating dichotomy all in itself BTW), without ever offering any truly verifiable proof of his/her existence, then told I must worship this god, rejecting all other claims of god as valid, and that if I fail to worship and follow a life path portrayed by this improvable god as "the way" I'll then be damned for eternity to live out that perpetuity in pain and agony, it totally evades me in how exactly this sounds like actions and demands placed upon his "creations" by an omniscient and all loving god?

If I am indeed the progeny of a god who knows the days and the number of my days before I was ever born, knowing just as well that I would also come to question his existence, which would then lead to an eternity in hell from such doubt, what then would have been the point of my creation and existence? Would I not, under such pretexts, obviously have been created, lived my life and then have been doomed to this horrendous eternity before I was ever born? Again, what would have been the point of my existence if not some horrid joke perpetrated by such a god with an assured tortuous outcome before my life ever even began? If so that sure calls into question the all loving part about such a god!

Having been raised in the Bible Belt here in the south I've never found any lack of religions, churches and believers, yet not a single one has ever been able to answer the above with anything more than the all too simplistic statements "You have to have faith in your belief" closely followed by "God gave you choice, so the path you choose is your own.". Both statements stand in stark contrast to the obviousness that this same creator endowed me with the tools to question and reject belief in all things improvable through logic and fact, yet from these gifts I will achieve an endless damnation in eternity? Gee thanks for your gracious gifts Mr. God!

If ever there was a case for a circuitous conversation this seems like a shining example.

In the many discussions I've had believers always tend to point to the lack of sciences' ability to prove or disprove god and that this convolutedly (<- spell check says I just coined a new word, Yipee!) somehow proves god must then be real. These same believers will similarly point to The Big Bang and Evolution as improbable and illogical, all the while conveniently omitting the last word of both of these scientific professions, which is the all important word Theory. See, science, unlike religion never lays absolute claim to anything unless it is indeed provable, so until such proof exists, all scientific professions carry the word THEORY. If theists were to similarly add this same term to the end of their professions instead of the unsupportable claim that instead it is in fact, "the truth", it would damned sure garner more respect from objective thinkers, or at least from this one.

Here's the bottom line of how I see myself in the world. I'm not here to worship anyone or anything that is at its core improvable, nor am I here to attempt to convert those who do believe in whatever deity they choose to embrace. What I will always attempt to do is seek truth (a decidedly elusive target, but ... ) and through that pursuit challenge others to at least question the unknowable that most of them have always accepted blindly to be THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, though quite honestly is itself not only actually improvable, but on many levels improbable.

With religion overall as much more a detractor and divider of humanity, my view is, it's singlehandedly done more to constrain mans evolution while encouraging vilification of huge segments of the earths population against each other, which only generates hatred, not love for one another, and can hardly be realistically viewed as in any way a force for the betterment of humanity on the whole.

With countless wars and untold billions of victims all laid directly at the feet of religious differences and beliefs, were I able to get even one person to inspect their blind embracement of such foolishness with objective reasonableness instead, and at least admit that if they choose to profess religious belief that they do so in stark opposition to anything verifiable as "the truth" they so loudly and proudly lay claim to holding and admit to themselves and others that their beliefs instead are simply subjective views based upon illogical and improbable texts, written by men, not gods, which exist solely by faith placed upon these same implausible constructs.

All in all, if I can get anyone to actually just stop and use the brains they claim their gods gave them to at least THINK for themselves, then success has occured smileys
with beer

quasi Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 12:57PM

That's it, I'm starting a new churh, The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Theorists.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 01:48PM

If the religious "masters" indeed simply added Theorists to their claims, I'd have a lot more respect for their position. It's when they ceremoniously claim it as Truth, The Way or the Path To Enlightenment that gets me goin.

It would seem to me that placing belief in some everlasting salvation for eternity through embracement of an improvable religious construct is nearer madness or lunacy than simply asking why such embracement would seem logical without some form of verifiable proof. However, these are titles commonly conferred upon non-believers by theists for asking such simple logic based questions eye rolling

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: April 02, 2011 03:37PM

Mrkim, you are right that it is a circuitous argument so I am not going to try and keep the wheel spinning.

The only things I want to say in response to your post are in response to 2 of the 4 common arguments threads you have come across. Anybody that has used 1 or 4 is simply deluded, wrong and, in my experience, in the minority. The christian teaching is that none of us can live a completely moral life, ie. we all make mistakes/wrong decisions, but to say somebody cannot live a mostly moral life without a belief in god is not postulated. As for science being flawed, I have never heard anybody say that before, and if I did I would probably start laughing.

I also want to say that I have come across people that claim evolution as an absolute truth.

Congrats on the new word smileys
with beer
woberto Report This Comment
Date: April 03, 2011 03:27AM

Yeah, I'm not reading all that.
wars fighting
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: April 03, 2011 07:57AM

I don't have the eloquent words to debate this issue so I won't try. I just know that I believe and it costs me nothing and makes me comfortable as I near the end of my trip through life. I would never try to convert any nonbeliever and desire they not try to convert me. I don't believe in any religion because they are all false, I only believe the religion of my heart because God lives in all of us even if we do not acknowledge it.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: April 03, 2011 11:58AM

Thanks for the congrats GAK. Seems some of the contortions I take the language through from time to time have interesting results when viewed in the context of grammar and word structure. I studied our language thoroughly so I could murder it properly for fun later rock on

Circuitous or otherwise, it seems the question still remains unanswered. Given Christian theists purportions (<-jeez, score me another one), are atheists simply some cosmic joke cruelly perpetrated by their god with an assuredly nasty outcome determined even prior to their births?

To 'berto: Just for shitz and giggles I threw the above post into a word processor and found it just shy of 2 pages. While instructions for the current crop of common cell phones or service providers documentation more closely resemble small books, and though anything I might pen hardly ascribes to such lofty flights of journalistic integrity or import, the choice to read either is certainly individualistic.

In penning more thoughts here's another to slip under your cap: The passionate search for what is truth is long and arduous, requiring purpose, intent and thought, indeed, complete lifetimes can and have been spent in seeking the definitive answer regarding a single sentence on one subject or another.

Conversely, sittin in the cheap seats on the sidelines and whining about efforts required in such searches are actions I'd expect from those much less wise and literate than I've always thought you to be (*facepalm*)

And onto JG: I ain't tryin to convert anyone, that's never my point. I only seek understanding as well as the same for others. My long held position is most theists swallow the bait and hook of religion far too easily, never even taking the time to fully inspect the basis of which, much less putting any real thought behind the very constructs overall validity while still wholeheartedly proclaiming it as truth. While asking people of faith to actually look beneath the surface of their beliefs and see if there's anything truly provable to be found there is akin to draggin a mule up a ladder, I still feel the arduous nature of such a quest is worthwhile.

There's a helluva lot more bullshit in the world than there is truth. More truth is always a welcome thing. BS? I'll pass .... thanks, but we have plenty enough to go around already winking

woberto Report This Comment
Date: April 03, 2011 06:38PM

Where is Lexx these days?
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: April 04, 2011 06:38AM

In my book religion and belief in God are 2 different things. I believe in God but do not believe in religion at all. The Bible I believe is a guideline to live a good life and should not be taken as the direct word of God because when it is read everyone will get different meanings form the passages. religion takes the Bible and interprets it in their own way to suit their own purposes which is why I do not follow any religion. I do not want anyone to tell me what I should bring from reading the Bible. To me God is everywhere and in everything so I worship in the Church of Life.
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: April 04, 2011 07:25AM

People have believed in God long before the Bible existed. Besides that, who are a bunch of ancient theocrats to tell me what to think?
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: April 05, 2011 07:50AM

To my way of thinking nobody has the right to tell me what to think or to believe. Also when I read the Bible nobody has the right to tell me what the verse means either, it means what I derive from it.
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: April 05, 2011 10:26PM

I agree with that. I feel free to disagree with someone else's interpretations of the Bible, I just do it in my mind for the most part as I respect the freedoms of others too.
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: April 05, 2011 11:22PM

where's a PW comment when ya need one? clown
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: April 06, 2011 06:30AM

I disagree with them by not attending any church. I also know without a doubt that entering the Pearly Gates does not require church.