Well, I feel obligated almost to respond to you lil' Diablo. Let's talk about your list of facts. Most of them are to some degree true, but you're using them in a distorted way and showing that you don't know how economics work at the same time.

Yes since Bush became President we've recieved a deficit. It was caused by a combination of an economic downturn that started before he entered office and 9/11. $400 million dollars isn't alot of money for the government. Tax revenues are usually near the trillions. It'd be like you personally going from having a friend owe you $50 to you owing him $50. You can take care of it easy, but you'll have to wait until the next paycheck because rent is due this week.

Yes, Bush said he wants to make his tax cuts permanent. I'm glad he did. That's because it's not just a tax cut for the rich and for big businesses, it's a tax cut for everyone that pays taxes. Besides, if you look into it the rich do pay more taxes than everyone else, and get a smaller percentage back in returns. They don't just pay their fair share, they pay more than enough. The top 50% wage earners pay over 96% of the taxes. The top 20% wage earners pay 80% of the taxes. The top 5% pay 65% of the taxes. To act like it is somehow surprising and unfair that they would get most of the money back is disingenuous.

Saying the government gets rid of deficits through taxes is an incomplete statement. You'd have me believe the government gets rid of deficits by raising the tax rate when in truth they do it through tax revenues. They could raise the tax rate all they wanted, but if it doesn't generate more revenues (because of lack of business done) than it's worthless. Whenever Ronald Regan lowered the tax rate he more than doubled tax revenues from $500 billion to over a trillion. When you create a situation where business can thrive, it will.

Like I said earlier, the rich really do pay a higher percentage than most of us. Most of us mere mortals get most of our money back through returns, especially when we're poorer. I remember getting back all of the money I paid in taxes a couple different times when I was younger. It goes beyond just the percentage you pay to begin with, but the amount you really pay in the end.

And then the tax cut is applied to everyone. It doesn't change the proportions for the highest income earners. If anything it pushes more people into the status of not even paying income tax.

Also, if you think the "mega-rich" (which includes farmers because of the millions of dollars in equipment they own, sub-s chapter corporations [the very definiton of small business], and mom and pops grocery stores) don't enrich anyone else than you have no idea how capitalism works.

Money doesn't just disappear after it's handed out. It gets spent. And it doesn't even disappear after it's spent. That same dollar goes through the system several times before being swallowed up by taxes, and it can go through even more times if you lower the tax rate. Even if it's put in a bank, they only have to have so much money on hand and the rest gets put back into the system. That dollar you want to be swallowed up by the system right away to help one family on welfare could instead become a dollar that helps 9 families including the one that was on welfare because they can get a job because businesses are making enough money that they can hire more.

Your whole premise is wrong. It's not that your facts aren't for the most part right, it's that you don't even know what they mean. Besides, if Bush is killing this economy why is it continually getting better? You make no sense.

You have a lot of time Strife. Thankyou for reacting I'm having fun with people like you ))))))))))

Atleast he said something with substance. Doesnt take much to amuse people with simple minds I guess.

I believe the last 3 words says it all and God did help us.

stussy you're a class act/low class no doubt.

allan you are just sooo witty. can i please be like you?

HAVING FUN daa. My intelligence and suit go to work....you guys are so fucking uptight, chill a little, is this your job to be so fucking boring. Yawn...

Hey, Stussy, I am chilled. I wouldn't bother with this if I wasn't having fun. I actually don't have a lot of time on my hands. I think this is cutting into the time I should be spending on homework. And by the way, Allan, I really don't see a point in responding to something if I can't add any substance to it. I'm glad you notice that.

I meant 'daa', not 'Allan' in that last post.

Fair enough then Strife let's leave it at that then, I respect your views but enjoy getting a reaction, the depth of some replies still astounds me. I too have the wisdom and knowledge to put forward a more detailed and reasonable argument with information and facts to back up my points, but I have neither the time nor patience for it, after spending each day in a high demand office environment. It's nice to just leave my thinking head at work and have fun! Hey I have no personal gripes with anyone; after all I don't know you personally, just as you personally don't know me (or my standard of intelligence and education). Call this a social experiment on my part, an alto ego perhaps?

Yes I don't favour Bush nor trust him, but maybe he is the lesser of two evils, either way I believe ANY president is merely a puppet with his advisors and intelligence service pulling the strings. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not but it is what I believe. It’s short and simple.

As for Americans I like them. I have relatives that are American and regularly visit the USA because of this and through work duties. I’d have to be pretty shallow to believe that all Americans fell into the stereotype that the media creates, I was merely having a dig at you just for fun and it was meant harmlessly, to provoke a witty response from you! I suppose us British also have stereotypes, I’d be glad for you to let me know how the rest of the world perceives us. Feel free to let it all out, after all, I did

Anyway I hope this concludes this stupid argument so we can move on from the whole election thing and debate about some more interesting posts on this site.

Allan, and the whole spam thing you’ve resorted too…I thought if I can’t beat you, join you, but seeing as I created a topic on this forum not too long ago talking about people like you I’ve decided to just ignore your immature doings and presume you’ll just get bored like children normally do. If you’re not a child I apologise…if that is the case…stop being a dick! I am quite happy to forget about this whole issue if you are too.

Everyone chill…although I will be back on some future posts to stir up a cauldron of shit It’s what I do best!

your right strife, i was wrong about the deficite thing, the three factors that allow the government get rid of a deficite are as follows: 1) changing policy to reduce expenditures (Don't see that one happening anytime soon), 2) By supporting economic growth, and 3) By INCREASING TAX REVENUES. Now tell me how giving big businesses tax breaks on buying equipement, which just ends up replacing workers, is going to help anyone but the owners of that company. As for your "80%" quote, THAT'S HOW PERCENTAGES WORK. You see, 10% of $1000 is going to be larger than 10% of $100. By using a percentage, it makes things fair because it is done by PROPORTION, NOT TOTAL. Here's an analogy: if i only have three dollars, spending five on taxes is going to make the difference between eating and starving. On the other hand, if you have i have five million, i wouldn't care if i used that same five to wipe my ass. That is why we use percentages. As far as your comment of "400 million isn't a lot of money for the govt...", if the government could USE all of that tax revenue for the deficite, then we'd be ok, but we have things like school systems, which are steadily declining in quality because funding is diverted, partially, to help pay off a HUGE FUCKING DEFICITE. And any sixth grader could tell you that the difference between 4oo and -400 is 800, not 400. WHAT THE FUCK DID THAT 800 MILLION DO FOR AMERICA? These comments, among many are only a few corrections, but seeing as how i have a lecture on Business law to attend in five hours, i'll come back later. until then, keep in mind that the richest 2% of the world HOLDS 80% of it's wealth, maybe it's you who doesn't understand capitalism. In the real world, if you have something good, you don't give it up.

whoops, kinda tired. oh well, i'm sure most of you could point out the obvious typos, so lets assume, taking the text for what it is, that i'm smart enough to see them and that by mentioning them you prove only your ignorance for the context in which they are found. Good night all.

So you're suggesting that the ultra wealthy are so common that they make up one out of every 50 of us? That's what it'd take to make up being 2%. They aren't, and you know it. You more than likely won't have any of your classmates from high school get really rich (Maybe you will, maybe they'll beat the odds and maybe four of them will be, I don't know, but I doubt it). The mega rich make up a fraction of a percent, making you the retard.

Meanwhile, you're wanting to punish small business owners for looking rich on paper when for all practical purposes they aren't. It's because they file as Sub Chapter S Corporations that they appear rich and appear to be in the top 2%. All of the assets the business has are considered theirs, all of the income (not profit, income) the business makes appears to be theirs for tax purposes, so it really does put alot of these people in the top 2%. Even though they're making tons of money, most of it has to be reinvested in the business and used to cover their costs, so their personal income after all of that isn't so great. Most of these "rich" have kitchen table issues just like the rest of us, such as how they're going to pay for their children's college. Most of these "rich" downright need a tax cut.

Besides, if anything creates a situation that's good for the ultra rich and big, evil corporations, it's liberal economics. Whenever you live in a high tax society it's much harder to start up a small business and it's much harder to maintain a small business. You're essentially killing competition for the big corporations and preventing any of us poor pleebs you're so worried about from doing anything about it. It'll be the giant corporations and ultra rich that will get into all of the loopholes in a high tax society. It's the years upon years of liberal economics that caused this debt and more years would ensure that it gets even worse.

As much as I know you're going to call me a dumbass for saying this, I have to say it because it's the truth: cutting taxes for machinery that's "taking" jobs does create as many jobs as it replaces most of the time. First off you have to include the people that make, design, deliver, and install these machines and the people that have to maintain and monitor them. Then, because the company can produce more they have to buy more raw materials, they have to hire more drivers, they have to hire more accountants, they have to hire more marketers, and they have to hire more engineers. All that doesn't even get into the jobs it creates for the people they buy their materials from.

A perfect example of this are self-checkouts at places like supposedly big and evil Wal-Mart. You'd have me worried to death that they're going to entirely wipe out the need for cashiers so our kids couldn't get jobs when they reach college age. However, I know that they have one person watching every 4 these registers at all times. Worst case scenario that's three jobs lost, assuming that all four registers would have been occupied. But whenever you add the fact (yes, I know this for a fact) that each of these terminals cost about $67,500 (making it about $270,000 for all 4 registers being watched by one person), you suddenly realize IBM is probably creating more than 3 jobs for those 3 lost at Wal-Mart, and they're probably better paying than the lowly title of cashier. Plus you can add all of the jobs that are created for IBM's suppliers and distributors. Then you also need to realize there are more jobs in Wal-Mart than just cashier. There are all of the people out on the sales floor too. Our local Wal-Mart has self-checkouts and they're having trouble finding enough people to fill the required positions.

You seem to have an entirely different grasp on reality than I do. Like I said in the last post it is not and should not be the government's role to take my money just because I'm more successful than someone else. I'm not rich. I'm far from it. The best description for me would probably be a broke college kid. I'm trying to start up my own business all while holding down another job and attending college. I'm the type of person that strives to be successful. I'm the type of person that needs a tax cut, and I assure you I got one. I loved getting one. It really could mean all of the difference in the world for my business, and just think about all of the people I might hire someday. Lower taxes are all about small business and it's small business that is driving our economy.

The craziest thing I did this year was donate $50 to the Bush campaign. I know what you're thinking: "if you're such a poor college kid, why would you do that, retard?" Well, to put it simply that tax cut was worth alot more than $50 to me and I want to make sure it keeps happening.

Later.

WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK?!!!!!!

Probably lil'diablo since he's been the one responding. However, he doesn't really seem to be listening. Screw it.

I.... Uhh... This sucks!! Why bush? Why not Donald Trumph or Aguilera?
It's not Bush, who makes the mistakes, its his staff, the ones who wrote his speches, the ones who tells the old senile man what to say and when to say it, those are the ones that rules your country, and since USA is a country with great power and big influence on the rest of the world, I think the rest of the world should have something to say in this mather.
Your country will probably be the reason for the 3 world war, it wil strike down hard on USA first, then in the aftermath, the rest of the world wil feel it.. This Sucks!!!!

Sencirely Your's Norwgian Dream voter.

PS: Get Angry..

Strife: If this is the way things work then why didn't Bush tow that line in his re-election campaign? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you as I'm not an American and don't understand your economy well enough but I'll tell you this much that you sound like a politician yourself and if you were running for office and I was an American I might actually think about voting for you.
The only problem I have with your explanations is that the tax cuts to the 2% will OVER TIME help the other 98%. My point being that don't you think that tax cuts would have been better handed out at a later date far beyond 9/11 and the middle east conflict you're going through right now. That tax money could have been better used to help pay for your countries troubles now. Then after you had recovered from this you hand out the cuts and build back up.