o.k. here we go with another little poll children. if you were to witness someone burning or otherwise destroying a flag of your country, what would you do?

1. run and hide, 'cause there's mean people around.
2. beat the frickin' snot outta that asshole!
3. call the police.
4. join in with the "fun"
5. join in with the guy beating the shit outta the asshole.
6. walk away, assholes are just stupid and stuff.
7. whip out your video camera and call CNN.
8. take the flag away from the asshole.
9. light the asshole on fire.
10. burn his car.
11. go to disneyland.
12. yell mean things at the asshole.
13. act like you speak french.
14. dr pepper.

[www.youtube.com]

That's not a biased list of options at all fossil!

If I saw somebody doing something like that I would (depending on the circumstances) go with option 3 cos somebody probably would start beating the snot out of them!

Practically, you cannot reason with somebody who is worked up enough to do that, so while I would be saddened and disappointed, because it is not illegal to do that here I would not intervene and would probably pull out my camera and try and get some pics to sell to the paper (close enough to option 7).

If I met them at the pub later though I would ask them why they felt that way about my country and then either:
- agree with their issues, but not their method of protest, and get them thinking about how we can change things as well as the good things here too as we had a drink together, or
- disagree with their point of view, as well as their method of protest, and put across my point of view as we had a drink together.

If they were still being unreasonable I'd probably go with option 12, then option 6.

i'm adding my own in here:
stand there laughing my ass off while people pound that asshole, not calling the police, helping him in any way, and also taking pictures to post on plus.

Ill drink to that fossil!

In numerical order; 8,2,9,10,11.


I haven't been to Disneyland since I was a kid. I'm so glad that you added that as an option.

Oh yeah, Dr. Pepper. I like Dr. Pepper!

i like that one of things used to justify beating up the person is that it is illegal to burn the flag (or fly it under another or whatever it is this week) but beating him up is also illegal and pisses on the freedom of a fair trial in court with legal representation. Hypo-fucking-crite? What you are actually saying is that when it comes to being a good American let the white middle class decide. So a guy does something illegal (maybe not intentionally) and you assault him, against your own laws, to "right" it.

IDIOT REDNECK THINKING IF EVER I HEARD IT

Have a beer, Z. I swear you'll feel better.

Read this section from the US Flag Code; I hope that this answers any further questions you may have.


[www.usflag.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 12:50AM by 90130_.

if more people thought their actions could lead to an ass-whippin' they might think twice about acting like an ass.....maybe? instead of people thinking that it's their right to act like an ass, maybe they should consider the lunacy of the nearby crowd, and decide that jacking someones flag just might get your dumbass killed/beaten/pissed on,and tazed in the nutz.....maybe? you'd feel like a really cool "revolutionary" laying dead huh?


of course i would be the one shooting pics for 613.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 01:44AM by fossil_digger.

A flag code? Talk about bureaucracy gone wrong! What's wrong with having one simple rule - when in the US the US flag is placed in the most prominent position? I always knew the US virtually worshiped their flag, but had no idea it was to this extent or this codified.

GAK, To help clear up any confusion you seem to be expressing over our flag code here in the US, maybe you should look at the history of your own country's flag. [en.wikipedia.org]

I especially like the dispute about changing the flag design. Seems NZ war veterans are angered by these proposals since the original design was one that they "fought and died for"

You have in your previous postings exhibited a fondness for your country and seem to have a strong sense of national pride. This very topic was discussed between us previously over the likes of famous New Zealanders who've made great contributions to their country, and in fact world history.

There is nothing wrong with honoring the flag that flies over it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2009 10:44PM by 90130_.

90130 - I know my countries history, along with most of it's flag's history. I have two short responses to your post:

1. Are you really going to use a quote from Wikipedia to back up your arguement?

2. How is what I have said not honouring my countries flag?

when you claim you would stand by and let someone burn your flag. that in my eyes is an indifference to what that flag means to you and your country.....but that's me.

But vigilantism isn't? So because somebody is doing something I don't like, but which isn't illegal, I should break the law and assault them? Or should I remove their freedom of speech/expression? That would show not merely indifference, but a complete disregard for what the flag means to me and my country.....but that's me.

GAK;

1. Wikipedia seems to be a fairly reliable source of information on the web. It's routinely policed by it's own users, so whatever inaccuracies present are usually updated and/or deleted.

2. I have not directly quoted you as saying you have no honor for your country. I just detect a wee bit of indifference toward it, which is not a crime, you are entitled to your beliefs. You are lucky to live in an open, democratic society like the USA where you have that option. Maybe not for long here, if the current administration and congress succeed in destroying our constitution and freedoms guaranteed by it.

My comments should not in any way be construed as an assault on your personal beliefs or sensibilites,
I duly respect your opinion and thoroughly enjoy our friendly debate. On this site, the lack of name calling and threats of violence are refreshing, to say the least.

Cheers.

President O is gonna be about 25 miles from here tomorrow. Want me to see if I can ask him what he thinks?

This is a quote from an NZ newspaper about a Waitangi Day (NZ's equivalent to Australia Day or US Independence day - is celebrated Feb 6) celebration in Finland.

"One of the guests was a Kiwi called Fraser. Fraser left his email on a recent blog asking if I wanted to have a drink on Waitangi Day, so I invited him and his Finnish wife to the party.

As a true patriot, earlier that day Fraser had flown a New Zealand flag from the flagpole outside his building.

Imagine the poor man's horror, when only minutes after hoisting his flag he discovered that someone had run off with it.

After making some phone calls he discovered that it had not been stolen by Finnish teenagers or confused Australians as he assumed, but by local authorities. Apparently it is an offence to fly a foreign flag in Finland, unless a Finnish flag is flown alongside it.

At the party, both Finns and foreigners agreed that this was heavy-handed - although the point was made that perhaps such sensitivity is understandable in a country which has only been independent since 1917.

Another possible explanation was that the Government official took offence to the flying of the New Zealand flag on what was the National Day of the Sami people, who inhabit the far north of Finland, Norway, Sweden and Russia.

We found it hard to imagine someone losing their flag like this somewhere as laid-back as New Zealand.

I recall my Father's story of going to work early one morning and seeing that the Department for Courts was flying the New Zealand flag upside down. Apparently in flag language this signifies distress.

With a phone call he discovered that the problem at the Department was not so much distress as early morning sleepiness. With this in mind it seems unlikely that the Department for Courts would punish someone for waving the wrong flag."

It clearly shows the differences between counties in relation to their flag. In NZ there is not a problem to fly other countries flags - used to have a Swiss neighbour who flew the Swiss flag (and only the Swiss flag) every day from their house. I'm sure Fraser would have been extremely apologetic when he discovered why his flag had been removed. It is interesting that his Finnish wife obviously was not aware of the law either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2009 12:18AM by GAK67.

maybe i didn't make myself clear, or your short term memory is gone. i never claimed i would pound anyone, i claimed i would laugh my ass off when that asshole got pounded.....pay attention now.

Can someone explain to me the mentality of americans when it comes to a FLAG.. it's just a flag.. yes it represents the country but people seem to go crazy over it more than they do for the ACTUAL country.. that same vet that cut the flag down in that youtube video probably has littered in his lifetime, has poured non biodegradable chemicals down the drain any other things that technically hurt the country/environment without a second thought. But you take a flag and you fly it below a mexican one (which was probably a mistake by the owners) and it's like 'ZOMG! GET THIS ON THE PRIME-TIME NEWS!!'

I'm all for being proud of your country but it just seems sheepish to be so focused on a bit of material put together in a sweat shop in china.

Oh and seriously.. [www.usflag.org] ?? WTF!! you have a 50 page doco that talks about what to do with a flag???

DK I'm an American and a Veteran, and I don't understand the fanaticism by some people either...I'm proud of my country and I respect our flag, but I also understand that our flag represents freedom and that means that if you want to burn that flag then you are free to do so.
Live and let live...

also I get your point about the guy in the video littering etc, but as a veteran I can tell you that he probably does in fact not litter...memories of police calls quell the notion to litter...I remember a drill sergeant in basic giving us a little pep talk about how great military life is, and one of the points he made was that you can go to any US city and look around and you will see litter, BUT go to any military base and look around and you will not see so much as a gum wrapper anywhere on the ground...

it sure is fun to see how far out "the p.c.left generation" will stretch for an argument.

not sure who that's directed at fossil, but if your calling me 'p.c. left'...you're way off...

What else can i not burn in America? I like to burn things, I'd like to see a lot more than a burning flag.

Let's start with Manhattan, no wait ... that's been done before.

i use PC and left as parallel universes. you junior seem to lean more towards PC than left, but you damn sure don't even flinch in the other direction, so yes, you could've been a target. that was a sawed-off over-under usage of the "term" aimed at the "crowd".

Would be interested in your opinion on my views fossil. Can understand that you might consider me p.c., but not so much the left. Admittedly NZ has a lot more socialist policy and laws than what I believe USA does, but my views on government intervention and capitalism would be considered right leaning here.

fossil is really good at getting a reaction from people, you could say he is a master baiter.