Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 21, 2009 02:53PM
The Canadians I know who are capable of doing so have separate private
insurance policies to cover costs necessary for parts of their health care the
govts system does not so they can then go outside Canada for treatments and
receive treatments in a more timely fashion if necessary. Not exactly a glowing
endorsement of a well working system.
Dunno the absolute truth of it but I recently read the waiting list for
obstetric care in Canada is now 10 months long. Guess if you plan to have a
baby, you'd better really plan ahead
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/07/2009 02:54PM by Mrkim.
DW9279 Report This Comment Date: July 21, 2009 03:26PM
As demonstrated by what Mr. Obama said yesterday when he hosted a conference
call with leftist bloggers urging them to pressure Congress to pass his health
plan as soon as possible.” During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept
running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the
House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this
true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to
write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied:
“You know I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are
talking about.” This is a truly disturbing admission by the President
especially considering that later in the call, Obama promises yet again: “If
you have health insurance, and you like it, and you have a doctor that you like,
then you can keep it. Period.” How can Obama keep making this promise if he is
not familiar with the health legislation that is being written in Congress?
Details matter.Just like the porkuless plan no one in Washington has a real
grasp on what is being proposed as Obama care. I am sure we can fix it after we
pass it right?
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 21, 2009 07:41PM
First of all if this cartoon is right than the privet healthcare system has
nothing to worry about. No one will want to use the government system. As for
President Obama not knowing every single word of the bill being debated in
congress, this is not unexpected. He has far too much to do than sit around and
read every little detail of a bill that is still unfinished. For all we know
Section 102 has already been rewritten three time by now. Congress it writing
this bill not President Obama. He will just give it a ya or nay when to gets to
his office. Lets start putting the blame where it belongs in Congress.
The Central Scrutinizer Report This Comment Date: July 21, 2009 08:26PM
It needs fixing and for profit Insurance thuggery is the reason. (Along with
for profit big Pharma....)
I'll take my chances with the government as private enterprise has proved itself
to be a complete pile of shit when it comes to matters of life and death. There
is no "greater good" in pure capitolism. There is no motivation in
pure socialism. A hybrid is the only option that doesn't live in criminal
asshole-land.....
(Just a mere seven months behind us......)
jgoins Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 11:05AM
Of anyone thinks the government can handle health care just look at medicare.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 02:26PM
Here's a great example of govt. run health care:
Airman 1st Class Colton Read was having his
gallbladder removed at David Grant Medical Center at Travis Air Force Base in
California when surgeons nicked or punctured an aorta. The breach was repaired
enough to save his life, but soon began leaking. This complication disrupted the
blood supply to Read's legs and prompted doctors to fly him to UC Davis Medical
Center in Sacramento for a partial amputation. The case is currently under
investigation by the base.
Yep, we need more of this kinda help for sure. Sadly this is also exactly why
malpractice suits occur. With this airman in the service however I believe he's
incapable of filing suit against the hospital or doctors who made this sad and
awful mistake that definitely will change the whole course of his life from this
point forward.
Is it really so hard to imagine this type of care on a national scale once the
federal government becomes a major (if not THE major) health care provider for
the citizens here?
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 02:39PM
If anyone thinks a government can't handle healthcare just ask the citizens of
France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria,
Japan, Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands,
United Kingdom, Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, Colombia, Sweden, Cyprus,
Germany, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Israel, Morocco,
Canada,
Finland, Australia, Chile, Denmark, Dominica, and Costa Rica. All of these
countries have better healthcare systems than the U.S. and most are government
run. And yes even Canada,s is better them the U.S. system, so if your
complaining about the Canadian healthcare system just think of how messed up the
U.S. system is now. ;(
If you wish to complain about the cost of a government run healthcare system,
just ask why the U.S. spends more per person on healthcare now under a privet
healthcare system than anyone else in the world: USA 4,271, Switzerland 3,857,
Norway 3,182, Denmark 2,785, Germany 2,697, France 2,288, Japan 2,243,
Netherlands 2,173, Sweden 2,145, and Belgium 2,137. The statistics do not
backup the notion that a government run healthcare system is poorer quality and
cost more than a privet run healthcare system. There is a way to make it better
36 other countries have done it and at a lower cost.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 02:46PM
And none of those countries are run by the totally bloated, bureaucracy
overladen type of national government the US has, so your point is moot Wolfie
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 02:55PM
Here's a great example of govt. run health care:
Airman 1st Class Colton Read was having his gallbladder removed at David Grant
Medical Center at Travis Air Force Base in California when surgeons nicked or
punctured an aorta. The breach was repaired enough to save his life, but soon
began leaking. This complication disrupted the blood supply to Read's legs and
prompted doctors to fly him to UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento for a
partial amputation. The case is currently under investigation by the base.
Yep, we need more of this kinda help for sure. Sadly this is also exactly why
malpractice suits occur. With this airman in the service however I believe he's
incapable of filing suit against the hospital or doctors who made this sad and
awful mistake that definitely will change the whole course of his life from this
point forward.
Is it really so hard to imagine this type of care on a national scale once the
federal government becomes a major (if not THE major) health care provider for
the citizens here?
What Mrkim forgot to tell everyone is that because this happened at a military
hospital Airman 1st Class Colton Read will not have to pay for any follow up
medical procedures due to this unfortunate mistake. If this happened in a
private hospital, the best outcome would have been a lawsuit with the lawyers
getting 30% or more of the settlement and the patient would still have to pay
for further medical cost. These mistakes happen just as often at private
hospitals but with a worse outcome. I would rather have a medical system which
is not afraid to own up to its mistakes unlike the one we have now.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 24/07/2009 09:07PM by Wolfgang613.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 03:02PM
Mrkim wrote:
And none of those countries are run by the totally bloated, bureaucracy
overladen type of national government the US has, so your point is moot Wolfie
Come again!
Take a look at the U.K., France,
or Germany and tell me there governments are not over bloated bureaucracies.
You need to get out more. The U.S. government is a finley tuned well old machine
compared to these governments. Now that's bad!
DW9279 Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 08:15PM
Keep in mind that What is going to happen is all the best doctors are going to
a/ retire or b/ leave the country because they can’t do business the way Obama
care will force them to. I have government run health care now thru the VA just
like the airmen in the above post will have when he finally is discharged from
the Air Force, he will spend the rest of his life fighting the VA for his care
because he will leave the service only after he settles on a disability
percentage some what less than he deserves giving him a couple of thousand
dollars a month and then he will have to justify every year getting that sum of
money and getting his health care from the VA.
This I can tell you is what you all will have to deal with when a bureaucrat
gets a hold of your health care. Just ask any one who has VA health care, the
care is great if you can justify a need for the treatment then you can wait in
line and then travel hundreds of miles to get it. That is exactly what you will
get with this bill.
As fare as those other country's having the best health care first have you ever
been to one of those countries? I have and I have seen people with scares from
neck to navel jest because he had his Gallbladder removed. Great doctors and a
great system.....no thanks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/07/2009 08:17PM by DW9279.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 09:27PM
When a doctor retires a new doctor will take his place. There are people in
med-school right now isn't there? There will still be privet heathcare so what
doctor will be forced to do what? The privet insurance will just have to
compete with a public plan. By the way, HMOs make doctors do many things they
don't want to do for the purpose of more profit. Also, where are these doctors
going to go and get a better deal then the U.S.? What is the name of this
mythical country?
And who said that the proposed public heathcare system will be the same as the
VA's? We don't know what it will be, and the fear of the unknown is very
powerful. My point was that the airman will not have to sue and make a bunch or
lawyers rich to get his heathcare for the mistake that happened. I said nothing
about the VA or military disability which are other systems which need to be
fixed.
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: July 22, 2009 11:44PM
i know 2 doctors who will retire. and they claim to know a few. so.....
i'm confused...people say we can do this deal now, but have no clue as to the
"readiness" of the system. you guys do know that there are waiting
times for specialists/surgeries/out patient etc. for care with peoples work
co-pay/ppo/ etc.... i guess the confusion on my part is where the hell do you
characters think you're going to squeeze (minimum, prolly counted by acrorn's
inflated horseshit) 46 million more patients who may have never had care?
imagine the mountain of paperwork the poor fucks will be filling out.
the numbers do not work no matter how you look at it.
why is this not a common sense question?
NO!
jgoins Report This Comment Date: July 23, 2009 11:51AM
After congress and our damn president destroy America for the terrorists, where
will that leave us?
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 23, 2009 02:15PM
Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang
Ranch brothel in
Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed
and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country, our banking
system, our auto industry and possibly our health plans to the same
nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling
whiskey!
Just another glowing example of how the government is capable of mismanaging
even the most successful of enterprises. If they couldn't even keep open a
franchise sellin pussy and booze just imagine what they'll do with YOUR health
care concerns
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 23, 2009 03:08PM
Wolfie, you really missed the boat and obviously fail to see the big picture in
the mentions of the malpractice event I mentioned earlier.
Any member of the Armed Forces is assured total health care as a part of their
employment during their duty assignments, and at no costs to them as it's part
of their benefits package as an employee.
Now then, while they are assured care they also have no option for what care
they will be receiving, when they will receive care for a malady/illness or
condition, who will administer the care, nor any recourse for any event that
could be viewed as malpractice as subsequent terms of their agreement.
What all this means is that any member of the Armed Forces is guaranteed care
but also has no rights in regard to expectations of what it will be, nor any
recourse for any mistreatment or faults resulting from administration of said
care.
What all this means in this particular instance is that although this airman was
admitted and treated for gall bladder issues, when the doctor accidentally
knicked his aorta during the operation resulting in emergency countermeasures to
save his life, which too was unsuccessful in totality, he then required further
emergency treatment that meant partial amputation of a limb.
But ... you're sure right, he won't have to pay a dime for the initial
treatment, any portion of the required countermeasures resulting from the
doctors mistakes during his treatments, nor even the physical therapy that will
be required so he can learn to walk again without part of his leg, and as a
parting shot also is incapable of securing any compensation relevant to how all
this will effect his life from this point forward, eventhough the end results
were all required as a result of accidental or negligent practices on the part
of the surgeon performing the initial procedure.
In some truly twisted way you somehow think this is a success story? Sorry but
your logic train won't be stopping here.
Sadly however, this is exactly the kind of twisted logic that will help us move
towards federally mandated health care.
You also seem to make excuses for the puppetmasters not even understanding the
scope or terms of the health care proposals before congress, like all the other
no-brainer liberals are so quick to do. But ... isn't he the one who pushed this
train to get it all started and then has lobbied the members of congress and
indeed the American people themselves near daily of late for it's passage, and
NOW, not after looking it all over and understanding it's parameters in
totality, since he claims that's of less importance than it is in just getting
it passed through the legislature BEFORE they adjourn for their upcoming
"vacation"!
With that in mind is it truly unreasonable to expect he at least know what the
fuck he's holding up to the American people as the Holy Grail of health care for
the nation as a whole? Is it too much to expect that he at least know WHAT he's
trying to sell?
If there were a way you and all your intellectually bankrupt buddies could take
this health care crap that's being offered but the rest of us could choose to do
otherwise, that would be fine to me, but that's not how it works when the
government enacts a policy intended to encompass all Americans. This pending
legislation is intended to eventually take away all other options for health
care for the bulk of Americans outside of the one that will be offered by the
government, leaving only those financially capable of procuring what will then
be astronomically higher premium based private (just as an FYI
"private" is spelled this way, not "privet"
health care insurance and you still think
that's a good idea huh?
Further extending the growing chasm between the Haves and the Have Nots is good
for us all eh, whatta concept
FrostedApe Report This Comment Date: July 23, 2009 03:09PM
I truly believe that the "government", from the city council up to
the president, is primarily made up of well-intentioned retards who, given the
chance, will almost always come up with the worst possible way to accomplish any
task they are given. "We, The People" keep demanding more and more
from "them", and none of "them" has either the brains or
backbone to tell "us", "Your idea is stupid, and you can't have
it." "We" reward them for their stupidity by re-electing
"them" until they come up against either a term limit, or an
indictment.
We get the government we deserve.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: July 23, 2009 03:23PM
I'm well past asking "the government" for anything. I don't expect,
nor need more from them as the old "less is more" seems more
reasonable in this regard.
I'm quite happy with the government I was assured under the Constitution and The
Bill of Rights, which is far and away less than what it's morphed into being as
it is today.
Sadly, the sheeple persevere in their pursuits to demand and expect more, no
matter what the cost it comes at to everyone else or our freedoms as a nation of
individual peoples
DW9279 Report This Comment Date: July 24, 2009 04:04AM
MRKim I have misjudged you, you do make sense. The Loony Left will not get
this picture we are holding up to their face until they actually have to live
with it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/07/2009 04:05AM by DW9279.
jgoins Report This Comment Date: July 24, 2009 12:10PM
By the time they have to "live with it", they will not be able to
"live" with it.
Wolfgang613 Report This Comment Date: July 24, 2009 10:48PM
It is apparent that I was completely misunderstood as to my previous post here.
I was simply pointing out that the government run military medical system is
not the worst thing going, and that it owns up to its mistakes and tries to make
good on them. Unlike the civilian medical system which is run primarily by
private companies who are trying to make a buck on our misery, and if there is a
mistake made will try to hide it, deny it and do everything in there power to
get out of paying for it. The tragedy that befell Airman 1st Class Colton Read
is by no means a success. He has had both his legs amputated and my still face
more problems down the road due to the mistakes made by a surgeon. We don't
know if the surgeon acted negligently or recklessly so to call it malpractice is
premature. Sometimes these things happen despite the best attempts to stop
them. If this is found to be malpractice, the surgeon will most likely face a
court marshal.
As for Airman 1st Class Colton Read, his medical will be paid for now and in
the future for any rehab or complications arising from this tragedy and he most
likely will get 100% military disability payments for the rest of his life.
Suing will just make some lawyers richer. I doubt he will get a better dial
through a lawsuit. And yes, he could sue the military it is just much harder to
do.
Using an unfortunate tragedy as "...a great example of govt. run health
care" is a farce. Mistakes are made just as often in both the government
run military hospitals and in the civilian run private hospitals, neither are
perfect and they never will be. This relates nothing to the reliability of the
proposed government health plan.
The health care plan will just give access to anyone who need to go to the
hospital without the wary of how to pay for it. In theory this will reduce
medical cost because people will get problems taken care of before they are
emergencies which will make us healthier, and if we are healthier them we will
be more productive and will be able to put more money back into the economy.
This is of course a Utopian idle and will most likely fall short of perfection,
but we should at lest try to get close.
jgoins Report This Comment Date: July 25, 2009 12:02PM
I have been in favor of national health care for years but do not believe it
can be done without someone paying for it. If the rich pay for it then they
will have to make changes to keep their bottom line intact and that will mean
fewer jobs. Maybe they should try a 1% sales tax, do away with income tax, to
pay for it then everyone will pay for it. Government money is not free someone
has to pay for it we cannot keep borrowing to run the nation, there will come a
time when our debt becomes too big and China will foreclose on the mortgage.
America is in serious trouble and it is only getting worse.
