Mrkim Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 06:19AM
One from column A, one from column B and, oh yeah, gimme the net please
quasi Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 10:11AM
I'm always confused when people say, "It was part of God's plan,"
especially when something awful happens. If there's a plan for everything why
should we bother doing anything and, more to the point, what's the point of
praying if everything is predetermined and there's no way to change the outcome?
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 12:09PM
God knows everything about everything past present and future even all thoughts
in everyone and all choices we make. So therefore since he gives us free will
any choice we make would essentially be his will. When bad things happen to
some others will be stronger even those who have bad things to happen to them
can become stronger or better. None of us will ever know his plan or even if he
has a plan so stating it was his plan would be just something that churches have
have engrained in us. I imagine churches use that as a way to get their
followers to get past bad things that happen. My entire original family is dead
and I am still alive, I have to believe there is a reason for that other than
just dumb luck.
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 03:48PM
Thinking that God does not exist involves the same arrogance and ignorance as
thinking that God does exist. There is no proof of anything concerning the
existence or non-existence of God. Both are imagined conditions.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 04:24PM
Perhaps you could better explain how failing to put faith into an improvable
construct of the existence of a god is arrogant or ignorant.
And, on the flip side, even as an atheist I don't see believers as arrogant or
ignorant, just that we hold differing perspectives on the matter.
All this does raise the curious question blah, if acceptance or denial of belief
in a higher deity shows arrogance and ignorance .... where exactly does that
leave you in all this
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 05:07PM
The arrogance and ignorance of not believing in God is a human mind basing a
decision upon unknowns, just the same as a human mind basing an opposite
decision upon unknowns. We do not know the truth of the matter, there is no way
for anyone to know the truth about it one way or the other. The decision to
believe yes or no is based in ignorance. The thought that such a decision is
correct despite the lack of proof is arrogance. What I mean is an attitude of I
am right even though I cannot prove it is an arrogant attitude.
Where it leaves me in all this is a difficult question to answer, considering
that I do not truly know. It isn't a yes or no question/answer to me. It is
paradoxical. There is no definite answer. I have a mixture of thoughts
concerning that and frankly can't decide. More importantly I don't think I can,
should or should have to be forced to decide. It is not my pace to do so. Who am
I to think that I could possibly do so?
Sure, I could decide for myself but it would still be an arrogant attitude based
on ignorance.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: April 12, 2013 09:27PM
The arrogance and ignorance of not believing in God
is a human mind basing a decision upon unknowns, just the same as a human mind
basing an opposite decision upon unknowns. We do not know the truth of the
matter, there is no way for anyone to know the truth about it one way or the
other. The decision to believe yes or no is based in ignorance. The thought that
such a decision is correct despite the lack of proof is arrogance. What I mean
is an attitude of I am right even though I cannot prove it is an arrogant
attitude.
Ok, I get the gist of your thoughts, though that doesn't exactly place me in
agreement, nor is it required. As thinking humans that's one thing that
separates us from the rest of the beasts.
Though belief in the improvable existence of a god requires faith, I'd hardly
call that a decision based in ignorance, nor would I characterize such a belief
as arrogance.
To believe as many atheists do that agreement with an improvable gods existence
lacks proof and therefore, logical agreement with the idea on such grounds,
seems at least more plausible as we are not claiming the presence of something
that can't be proven, simply disbelief and therefore rejection of that which can
not be proven.
To myself, and as always the only one I speak for, simple rejection of an
improvable (and over(t)ly improbable) existence of a god is based upon lack of
proof thereof coupled with the rejection of the required faith to believe in
anything lacking verifiable proof of existence. If that seems to you as
arrogant, or ignorant, I'd have to say we have differing points of view as to
what would constitute such things.
As one who fails to have faith in an improvable ideology I'm not required to
disprove the existense of anything that itself is improvable, as many
theists/believers claim I must, to prove my own atheism as valid. Believers are
the ones with such a burden, not we who reject such belief/faith in the
improvable.
Where it leaves me in all this is a difficult
question to answer, considering that I do not truly know. It isn't a yes or no
question/answer to me. It is paradoxical. There is no definite answer. I have a
mixture of thoughts concerning that and frankly can't decide. More importantly I
don't think I can, should or should have to be forced to decide. It is not my
pace to do so. Who am I to think that I could possibly do so?
This equates as one of the most namby-pamby statements I've ever read on this
topic, and I can assure you, there have been quite a goody number committed to
memory.
To say you have/hold either a belief or reject such a belief is a statement of
position, based upon whatever premise one chooses to do so upon. Similarly, to
state one holds a position of ambiguity is just the same as to saying one lacks
the ability to choose one or the other, and in the same hand, the strength to
state with conviction that they hold an opinion at all. The definition of
agnostic applies to all such fence sitters, so I query is that then your
position?
Sure, I could decide for myself but it would still
be an arrogant attitude based on ignorance.
It seems as if you've boxed yourself into quite an illogical/paradoxical corner
there dude as you claim you can't make a call, nor that even if you did so, any
logical choice even could be made ..... interesting indeed, even if I choose to
heartily disagree
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 13, 2013 11:41AM
What possible harm does it do for one to believe in God if he does not
exist?
What harm does it do to not believe in God if he does exist?
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: April 13, 2013 01:41PM
it's called mind control
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 13, 2013 01:44PM
You asked a question of me and I answered it honestly. You didn't ask it to see
what I thought anyway, you asked it to collect fuel for your bullshit fire of
strawman arguments. You already judged me long ago. I am not required to play by
YOUR rules Kim.
Mrkim Report This Comment Date: April 13, 2013 01:48PM
The same argument could be made for unicorns JG, as both are illogical
blah, though it may seem you've answered, all you did was state a conundrum,
talked all around an answer, then stated no answer was even possible, hence the
conundrum.
The only rules are that if ya wanna play the game, step up to the plate and be
ready to swing for the fences. Proceeding with anything short of that just
exposes a lack of conviction, or a serious case of "empty shirt"
syndrome
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/04/2013 03:45PM by Mrkim.
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 13, 2013 04:04PM
Stating the conundrum illustrates exactly why I don't decide what the logical
truth is concerning the existence of God. I recognize that making such a
decision one way or the other is invalid. It is factually impossible to say with
certainty of proof that God either exists or does not.
Stating that God definitely does not exist is based on the same lack of
information that stating the opposite is based on.
You stating "The only rules..." are still your rules. Don't make the
mistake of equating this to lacking conviction. I am convinced about a great
many things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/04/2013 04:09PM by BlahX3.
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 14, 2013 11:25AM
Who is controlling my mind? Are churches controlling my mind? I don't believe
in churches. Is God controlling my mind? Some say God doesn't exist so how can
he be controlling my mind? So just where does the mind control come from?
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 15, 2013 12:13AM
Hopefully you are. As long as you are honest with yourself and do a healthy
amount of questioning your own beliefs you probably are.
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 15, 2013 11:08AM
The only time mind control is involved is when you attend church. Belief in
God is not mind control in itself it is just churches which control your minds.
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 15, 2013 05:41PM
Learn your own mind. It doesn't have to be anything to do with believing in God
or not. It is your mind.
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: April 15, 2013 06:38PM
let's say that the church propaganda monster machine had never reached your
ears....what would you believe in?
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: April 15, 2013 06:40PM
let's also consider that, let's say, the bible was presented as science fiction
or fiction in general.....what would you believe?
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 16, 2013 12:20AM
How do YOU answer those Fossil?
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: April 16, 2013 02:28AM
i still say hogwash
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 16, 2013 11:24AM
I get your point FD on the first one, I already thought of that scenario but I
still believe and always will as it does me no harm.
As for the second one, life on other planets is science fiction but I still
believe there is life out there somewhere. If I didn't believe there was life
other than our own and a space craft landed with extraterrestrials on board then
my mind would snap. As I believe now I would accept it if it happened.
fossil_digger Report This Comment Date: April 17, 2013 09:16PM
travelling into space used to be only science fiction also.
BlahX3 Report This Comment Date: April 18, 2013 01:43AM
The world used to be flat too.
jgoins Report This Comment Date: April 18, 2013 10:44AM
And the Sun used to revolve around the Earth too.
quasi Report This Comment Date: April 18, 2013 10:50AM
But there ARE sea dragons out there, or at least river dragons - I've seen
them, and sea cows too.