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Wishful Thinking?

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Wishful Thinking?

Comments for: Wishful Thinking?
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: July 24, 2011 07:56AM

this piece of shit needs to die a slow death over several weeks. angry
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: July 24, 2011 09:21AM

From what's been said in the news about this cat it seems he had a point to make, one I'd likely even agree with as he was deriding multiculturalism, over immigration and the encroachment of foreign elements within his country in efforts to change it more to their vision of what it should be as opposed to how Norwegian culture has always been.

All that having been said his methodology in making his point will not only lead many of those he intended to portray as extremists to become even more so and just add more fuel to the fire while making the case for his own obvious insanity at the same time. What seems even more odd is that he acted out against his own countrymen/women/children instead of the group he supposedly was opposed to, making his actions even more fanatical and senseless.

I was reading last night where if convicted he could receive over 20yrs in prison for his unconscionable acts. How sad a joke is that? At that rate that's less than 3 months time for each victims life he took hot smiley

I can't muster sympathy or agreement with anyone killin in the name of anything but self defense, and having killed scores of defenseless teenagers during his rampage makes his actions even less defensible and indeed heinous no matter how vindicated he felt in his twisted little mind in perpetrating these horrendous crimes.

It's a damned shame he will not receive the death penalty for his actions as quite obviously having taken so many lives so unconscionably he has no real right to keep drawing breath with the rest of us angry

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 03:38AM

@fossil - while I agree he deserves all the agony of the slow death you desire, I personally feel a quick bullet to the head and dumping his body in an undisclosed location will stop him from using the press to become immortalised by some.

@Mrkim - I wonder why culture needs to remain unchanged? I'm sure you would have little qualms in changing the culture in some muslim countries. I'm also sure the US culture is not the same as when the pilgrims first arrived, and didn't they make "efforts to change it more to their vision of what it should be"?
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 07:01AM

I agree Gak culture does need to change around the world but I think it might only need to change in the area of tolerance.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 08:16AM

Back atcha GAK

Society is a constantly morphing entity, no doubt, with some changes appreciated more than others. While it's true there are changes I'd view to many other societies in the world as positive it's really not my business nor place to change them. Quite simply though, were I able to impart peace amongst all the warring factions in the world that would be the most positive change I could imagine, with the single greatest benefit to all concerned.

In my own country, which is of course my main concern, I have seen changes in our society that are less than desirable.

I've watched the dignity of the black population of the country rise and fall with an overall impact I view as negative in the long term. In the early 60s there was great social unrest as they sought equal rights, which were eventually granted through governmental policy changes in voting rights, hiring practices, and in no small part by forced integration in the schools. While these changes righted many incorrect policies and the overall metamorphosis of society relevant to them were overall positive, there still severely negative social impacts too.

In 1962 when I started 1st grade we lived in a city run segregated housing project with 3 areas, one for the blacks, one for whites and another for the Mescans, with each area having its own park and recreation center. Everyone in this project was poor but there was peace and dignity between the folks there and we got along fine. I can not remember even a single incidence of any kind between any of the races at my school and there was no racial tension I ever observed in our neighborhoods, hell, we were all just poor folks tryin to get along and make it.

By the time forced integration policies were implemented upon the housing project my Mom had remarried and we had moved to a different part of Dallas but what ensued in that project was an incredible increase in violence and crime, which lead eventually to most of the whites and Mescans moving out, even more crime, many of the once filled studio apartments there went vacant, were vandalized and eventually the whole place was closed and bulldozed some years later.

From my perspective the implementation of prez. Johnsons "Great Society" program where govt. attempted to right the wrongs of the social injustices to the blacks was the single biggest blow to the dignity and culture of the black population as it lead to the eventual abuse and gaming of the system, which while it was intended to give the black community a hand up, became a hand out instead.

Blacks were now able to receive subsidized housing, free food, free healthcare and even a monthly check for doing nothing but being black. While these policies and programs were heralded as a new dawning for the blacks in America by the well intentioned bureaucrats it (in my view) lead to the undermining of the dignity of the black segment of society and to be honest was discriminatory in nature as these same benefits were not extended to everyone equally.

In the early 70s the federal govt took the idea of forced integration another step forward by implementing policies that forced racial quotas on the schools. While black, brown and white people already lived together in many areas and neighborhood schools revealed this societal comingling, the federal govt began forced bussing of students to other schools to balance the ratios at all schools.

This also became what we call here an "unfunded federal mandate". The larger metropolitan school systems in having to comply with these new guidelines had to purchase, operate and maintain huge fleets of busses, leading to increasing (and unwelcomed) tax burdens on the citizens. School curriculums which were once varied throughout the entire district were now required to be equal, which lead to an overall decrease in academic achievement. While some neighborhood schools had done better than others academically, this "equality" push lead to an overall dumbing down instead and the losers were the very students this was all supposed to have made it better for.

This detracted from the overall sense of community people once enjoyed in their local neighborhoods and there was a lot of resultant tension when students were then forced to attend schools in areas where they felt less welcome, afterall, they weren't in their neighborhood and students from outside their neighborhood were now filling the seats of their neighborhood schools instead.

This governmental intervention here in Dallas lead to many whites moving outside the Dallas school district to suburban schools which were not effected by these policies. By this time our family was livin in such a small town in the suburbs and the influx of students in our schools lead to a drastic change there. While the influx was of whites into a predominantly white community the attitudes of the former Dallas school kids was quite different from those in our little town. While our local school system had been rated as in the top 10 statewide for scholastic achievement, that soon began to dwindle and today that same school systems rating is in the slightly less than average range.

There's lots of other things I could relate here about other social changes I've viewed, but this diatribe has already run long enough, so let me just close by saying that while societal change is inevitable, that does not mean its outcomes will always be positive winking

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 02:05PM

"societal change is inevitable, that does not mean its outcomes will always be positive" - I agree with this comment completely, Mrkim. The difficult part is obviously in achieving the good changes while avoiding the negative ones. I would hope that you would view equal opportunity for education, healthcare and employment regardless of skin colour as a positive change (and I don't mean forced equalisation of racial mix). In my current role I work with a number of South African emigrants and I think South Africa is another example of significant social changes having a negative impact as well as a positive one. The crime rates in South Africa have risen dramatically since the ending of the apartheid regime, as have job losses due to loss of investment funding, educational standards have dropped, etc. That doesn't mean it was right that there was forced segregation based on skin colour though.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/07/2011 02:08PM by GAK67.
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 05:37PM

For the worth of it (or not) I agree with both you guys. Involuntary racial segregation is wrong, just as is involuntary racial integration. To me the point is to allow reasonable choices to those who are affected. Legislation is by it's very nature flawed. It has to be specific and more often than not specifications do not apply and a great many people and people situations fall between cracks. I will say that I do believe that changes in attitude and belief in society are far more important than anything any governmental action can ever hope to achieve.

"There you go, man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles of trials with smiles.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.
And keep on thinking free."
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 06:43PM

i think it's the whole attitude being taught/whispered/egged on/or even implemented in some cases to "minorities" that white people owe anyone else that isn't white some sort of compensation for whatever reason that needs to stop. i know however that it will not because as long as the rich keep the different races and skin colors as well as demochimps against Repugnant "wars" going on, they make a killing and will keep it up until someone or a group of someones make them stop. simple math as well as logic.
GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 09:30PM

An effect from much of the societal change, particularly in relation to race relations and the empowerment of other minorities, is that it removes the ability to blame somebody else. In the case of South Africa, which I mentioned earlier, many blamed the apartheid for all of their woes, but once that was gone and their situation didn't improve they didn't have that excuse any more. It will take time for people to deal with that, and the signs are that this is happening in South Africa now. The same thing has happened here in NZ too. I probably need to give you a brief history lesson since most of you will be unaware of the politics of a small pacific nation. When the British took over NZ they did not defeat the indigenous Maori people, but rather signed a treaty with them, although they didn't do a very good job of sticking to the terms of that treaty. In recent years the Maori tribes have been handed either large cash settlements and/or previously government owned land holdings to compensate for the loss of their legal rights. Many Maori used to say they were disadvantaged due to the fact that their Treaty of Waitangi rights were not being honoured. They no longer have that excuse and some are struggling to deal with that.

I know many of you do not like Obama winning the presidency, but I think one positive that will come from it is that many black Americans will no longer have the excuse that they can't succeed due to the white man's government keeping them down. It will take time for that change to filter through society though.
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: July 25, 2011 09:38PM

the Maori deal is almost a carbon copy of what was done to the native Americans. i guess if it 'aint broke... but i think the native Americans are getting wise to the white man's scammage. it's a shame that the world populous buys into the elite B.S. and keeps fighting amongst themselves, because as long as this goes on there will never be world peace. thumbs upsad smileythumbs up
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 01:15AM

In a world where everyone has been deafened by the screams of modern society isn't the only course of action to make a real difference to that society extreme action? Just saying...
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 01:49AM

^^^^^ Now, we're onto something smiling
bouncing smiley ^^^^^

Sometimes I'll gin up a rum n diet dr. pepper, root beer, or whatever else is handy ... I'm not picky so long as there's rum in the equation. Then when I'm up for the extreme stuff ... I'll have 2 Dancing
Green Banana! rock on Dancing
Green Banana!

And it's like puttin those societal screams on mute too clown


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/07/2011 01:51AM by Mrkim.
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 01:58AM

Sure it's easy to get up on moral high ground and detest the actions of someone who has grown so disenfranchised with the world that he believes that the only way to seek recourse is to take the lives of as many people as possible to highlight the depravity of the situation we all find ourselves in. What's really worse, picking up a gun and taking a stranger's life? Or feeling like you have no other choice? I think to understand the actions, if that's something you truly want to do, you must walk in the shoes of someone. In this case the shooter has tried to allow this to happen by releasing a manifesto explaining why he has done the things that he's done. I'd suggest people take a read before repeating headlines from the bbc.
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 07:45AM

I think racial differences would have worked themselves out in time if left alone. Government intervention always seems to broaden these differences more than reduce them. I believe that we as a people have the ability to see what's right and accomplish it on our own without government intervention. There may be a few in society who will not do the right thing even if they see it but the vast majority of people are good in my opinion and if left alone will overshadow the few who aren't.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 10:02AM

GAK, no doubt I see all peoples rights to enjoy the same opportunities and freedoms as a baseline for the progression of mankind as a whole, or to borrow a few lines from Bob Marley: "Until the color of a mans skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes .... it's a war, everywhere is war".

I must admit I'd never viewed equality taking away the excuses of personal/societal failures and find that freshness of thought, well ... refreshing.

In one of my favorite moovies "Stander" in a discussion between Stander (a SA detective) and his father (a retired SA policeman) when they are discussing the oppressions of apartheid and how the son finds himself in disagreement with being a governmental tool of the oppressive policies of apartheid the father quips how their blacks are better educated, lead better lives and enjoy things no other African blacks did and asks if his son believes ending apartheid would be beneficial overall to them if they were then brought down to the same levels as the rest of the African continents black run countries?

All in all this is a thought provoking conversation and seems very likely to have now historically answered itself by the resultant overall decline of their society since the end of apartheid. While this in no way condones oppression it certainly does give validity to the idea that equality obviously comes at a price and that once equality is granted it also takes away the vilification arguments validity and places the burdens of personal/societal success where they truly belong.

No doubt Obozos election broke through old barriers and ended once and for all the argument that a black American could never be president. It also seems some parallels can be drawn between this electoral outcome and the ending of apartheid. While American blacks viewed Obozos election as a personal victory that then changed forever the position of blacks within our society, some also viewed it as a personal empowerment of blacks and have since pushed them further forward in their vilification of the whites.

In a very telling way of a level of expectations some blacks viewed his election huge lines of blacks formed in many cities after his inauguration to sign up for or receive their "Obamamoney" which they felt immediately entitled to. While many blacks viewed this as granting a freedom in shedding additional personal responsibility in favor of letting the govt become ever more intrusive in determining the life they would lead after the election as they would then snuggle ever more deeply within the womb of the nanny state "don't worry about it, we'll take care of you, FOR you" ideology, the all too obvious reality of that is that once you give up freedom of choice in allowing others to control your destiny, you actually are trading away your very soul in doing so as this is honestly just a granting of oppressive powers to others, or the actual opposite of personal empowerment.

Today, no black in America can say their race would ever keep one from being able to achieve the office of prez., but with the massive new accumulations of national debt, failures in how our economy has tanked, unemployment that's risen and stayed at levels never historically seen previously for such a length of time, how the constant claims of an economy on the mend have not come to be viewed as truth, how governmental policies have been implemented through executive order as opposed to legislative process, and on and on and on .... I think it could well be a while before we as a country are once more willing to try it again winking

Blah, govt. never seems to be able to get it right. Though so many policy changes are well enough intentioned, the means they use to implement the changes always seem counterproductive in the end as they almost always lead to unintended consequences that at times can or do end up being worse overall than if things had just been left alone!

BTW, nice Moody Blues ref dude! Always liked that piece of poetry. Too bad their music is now just in the past. They had a style and texture to their music I've yet to have seen replicated by any other artists. But, I covet their art and get to enjoy it anytime which is about all one can do with the loss of this talented group disappointed smiley

DK, while I find some level of agreement with what you're sayin, once you plant a bomb or shoot up a buncha kids in the name of your agenda, the message you're tryin to push turns to lunacy and support for that agenda from thinking, caring people will disappear faster than a fart on a windy day.

I'm passionate about a lot of things and see many changes in our society as detrimental overall but I could never validate killing others as a support mechanism for my beliefs.

Will his actions lead to others feeling similarly to act out in similar fashion? Possibly. Could it also lead to those he opposed to also act out violently? Sadly yes, that's a possibility too, yet neither reaction seems to offer a positive outcome, and most certainly not to the victims and families of these victims (*facepalm*)

GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 02:22PM

@Mrkim - "Today, no black in America can say their race would ever keep one from being able to achieve the office of prez., but with .... I think it could well be a while before we as a country are once more willing to try it again" - I agree that this is likely to be the case so I am not accusing you of rasism, but it is a sad fact that people will see the failures of the current administration as an excuse to not elect another non-white president when in reality those failures, either real or perceived, have nothing to do with the colour of Obama's skin but are a result of his party's policies. That would be like saying the failures of the Bush administration were because he was short or from Texas.

@DK: If Breivik had not killed anybody I would have been unaware of his manifesto and completely ignorant of his ideas so if he did what he did to make others aware of them he has achieved his goal, but I'm with Mrkim on this - as soon as he turned himself into a terrorist that manifesto and those ideas became, in my eyes, the demented justifications of a madman, meaning I will not read his manifesto and even if I did would not take it seriously.
ORLANDO399 Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 02:33PM

You guy's would argue over a peanut butter and jelly sandwich if ya had the chance!(*horse*)
GAK67 Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 04:54PM

@'Lando: Who's arguing - wasn't I agreeing?
BlahX3 Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 05:17PM

Who can tell anymore?
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: July 26, 2011 05:23PM

peanut butter and jelly sucks! (throwup)
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: July 27, 2011 07:43AM

Well Odamna's color is only one reason I don't like him and the thousands of other reasons overshadow his color so much it dims in comparison.
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: July 28, 2011 10:18AM

Kim: well said, a lot off topic, but well said none the less..

However I think the point of the shootings was just to bring to light his beliefs and considering the pages of forum posts around the world and the near constant news coverage I think he's been successful in doing so. That also said the shootings where 2 fold. They where to bring attention to the manifesto and to attempt to curb the indoctrination of youth to left wing political belief systems via a mechanism of fear.. some media may label his actions as terror, others as the actions of a freedom fighter.. I guess it all depends on the spin the presenter puts on it.. I'm a few hundred pages into the manifesto and a lot that has been written you have to agree with... the main context has been the history of the world which I would assume that most people are totally unaware of.. The belief that the war between Christianity and Muslims is over which in fact it's always been running.. that a new method of conquest is being used by the Muslims (that has been used for many thousands of years I guess) and that is genocide via reproduction..


Personally I'm up for letting the whole world burn..


Global thermonuclear war..
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: July 28, 2011 02:27PM

DK, I understand your point and in all likelihood, if I were to read his manifesto I'd problee agree with his as well. My point still remains that once you utilize violence to push a point, any point, no matter how reasonable or valid it is, you will cease to find agreement with it even from the bulk of people who would otherwise agree with you. In other words your ideology becomes divisive and actually will lose support instead of gaining it.

While I also agree his killings were intended to attract people to view his manifesto and instill fear in people allowing their children to be politically indoctrinated I'd still say the best result he achieved in this was to outrage a whole country who now are looking at changes to their laws just so they can keep this lunatic in jail for the rest of his life. I don't think these were the changes he intended to promote so his agenda again falls short.

Similar to when we were attacked on 9-11 I doubt the terrorists really understood they would wake the long slumbering giant of American solidarity in having attacked us, nor that our cries for their blood would be so vociferous either. While they did manage to instill a certain amount of fear into our culture I doubt seriously they intended to also unify all Americans in doing so.

I'll grant you that many people are ignorant of a lot of world history and also that the war between Xtians and Mooslims is far from over, actually I see culmination of that war coming and it's gonna be a real doozy if it ever truly breaks out in the ways it could.

Nice True Romance vid, I've always liked Dennis Hoppers speech in that piece. Reminds me of the cartoon of the mouse shootin the finger at the eagle that's about to kill it.

I don't wanna see the world burn or wiped out but if I were like the cat in "The Lathe of Heaven" I'd go to sleep every night hopin I'd dream that all religions would disappear from the face of the earth rock on

fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: July 28, 2011 06:00PM

peanut butter and banana really really really sucks. (throwup)
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: July 29, 2011 06:44AM

Destroying the world because you don't like the direction it is going is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. If one can't accept the way the world is then try to change it locally among your friends and if you still don't like it then just remove yourself from the world. Darklown if you don't like the world just leave it. There is no reason to take everyone with you.
ORLANDO399 Report This Comment
Date: July 29, 2011 08:24AM

Actually there is quite a few that need to be taken out of this world!
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: July 30, 2011 06:44AM

No they need to take themselves out of this world unless they take someone else out then they can be taken out.
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: August 01, 2011 10:13PM

jgoins: I'd love to take myself out but that's illegal.. so if your going to break the law might as well take others with you!...

Kim: Osama was well aware of what the fallout of the 9/11 attacks would be.. ( just as the generals of japan where after attacking pearl harbour.. ('s_sleeping_giant_quote) it doesn't take much to figure these things out.. imagine what would happen if america blew up china.. now that would generate some new year fireworks worth watching!

In a Aldous Huxley universe the only way to get people's attention is via great acts. Everyone is (was?) at attention after his acts.. his actions may not shift your focus/direction completely but it wasn't meant too.. he never expected a sudden up rise from his acts, it was merely to highlight and seed into the back of minds so that future actions may somehow lead to a different outcome than the presaged world he envisioned...

--Kill a man and you're a murderer, kill many and you're a conqueror, kill them all, you're a god
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: August 01, 2011 10:57PM

inter arma enim silent leges
jgoins Report This Comment
Date: August 02, 2011 07:04AM

stultus verba aliam insaniam
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: August 02, 2011 10:01PM

tacere ac neglegere est maximum omnium peccatorum
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: August 02, 2011 10:37PM

quis est omnium peccatorum?
fossil_digger Report This Comment
Date: August 02, 2011 10:41PM

Ars vacuus tactics est tardus iter itineris ut victoria. Tactics vacuus ars est sonitus pro evinco.
Mrkim Report This Comment
Date: August 03, 2011 12:40AM

^^^^^ Mental masturbation^^^^^

Thanks to one and all I just jizzed all over my english to latin translator screen smiling
bouncing smiley

jgoins Report This Comment
Date: August 03, 2011 06:44AM

cum goo sexus est magnis et ut id isex malum bonum.
DarkKlown Report This Comment
Date: August 08, 2011 12:13AM

Put on your tin foil hat! []