kim - I have never denied that humans are the ones killing each other but you, and your pro gun buddies, seem to ignore the fact that guns make killing easier, that arming the populace starts an arms war between the criminals and the populace, and that as a general rule the countries with fewer guns have fewer homicides (and yes I know there are exceptions like Switzerland, but that doesn't diminish the point).

jg - I have never said that there are no guns in the hands of NZ criminals, and anybody who believes that is a fool. However, because guns are hard to obtain for the populace as a whole, and our police force is unarmed while on patrol (they have weapons available in a lock box in most patrol cars). the criminals, as a general rule, do not feel the need to arm themselves. Obtaining a gun as a criminal is also difficult (but not impossible) as there is a limited black market simply because there is not a large number of guns available.

I will reiterate what I have said before - this approach works here with our unique circumstances. I am not advocating this approach for the US, or any other country.